Toshiba Ships Low-Cost 1080p HD DVD Player

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posted Apr 12, 2007 - 4:13 PM Unless Sony drop the Price of the PS3 of course, then it's PS3 in crisis, slashing price to boost sales ..
Seems fanboys like Alex want it both ways, and twist the facts to suit today's argument.

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Bottom line, is HD-DVD is getting slaughtered in sales.
Blu-Ray across the board is outselling HD-DVD 4:1 now.

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edited Apr 12, 2007 - 4:59 PM No, if the PS3 dropped in price it would be the result of the cost of components coming down.

You like to put words in people's mouths don't you. I suppose the only way you have of winning any arguments is to make them up though. How sadly lame.

Even funnier, you then call me a fanboy while going on a rant about how HD-DVD is getting slaughtered and links to sales figures, etc. Ever hear the story about the pot and the kettle? On what basis are you basing your fact that it WON'T be upgradable?

The fact is we don't know, and given what we do know:
PS3 is a software based player, that's not going to be replaced by another product in the shortterm. It's almost certain it WILL be updated to play the new BD-J spec.
What is SCARY is there are people that actually believe the FUD spread by a few of the 200,000 HD-DVD owners.

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edited Apr 12, 2007 - 12:46 PM On what basis are you basing your fact that it WON'T be upgradable?

He didn't say that it WOULD NOT be upgradeable, he said that there is no guarantee that it will be and he's right. Do you always make stuff up so you can attack people's posts?

posted Apr 11, 2007 - 7:53 PM Well I came to say congrats to Toshiba only to find that Keith Lard is trolling and messing up the whole thread again.

What a worthy member to Betanews. At least he is getting owned as usual.
Anyway it's good to see a new lower cost HD player on the market, and lots of new titles coming.

edited Apr 11, 2007 - 5:07 PM Woo, more than a PS3...

Why waste your cash on something that will be a doorstop by xmas?
Does it do HDMI 1.3?

Does it do TrueHD?
Apparently not..

. Is the XBox360 selling? Yup.

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Is Sony making a profit on the PS3 units?

Nope - or at the very least, not a substantial profit.
Is the XBox360 doing much better in the strategic marketing space than PS3? Yup.

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Has the continued success of PS2 and Wii taught Sony anything about the marketing of big expensive consoles that offer only a few games and a fancy DVD player for use on 1080p TVs that few have?

Apparently not...

to coin a phrase.
But let's not stop there..

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Who has crippled the backwards compatibility of their European units in an effort to try to stop the hemorrhaging of costs?
Whose units are sitting on the shelves while the Wii is still sold out?

Whose old school platform is generating more profits than their new whizzbang platform that everyone was supposed to embrace without question?
And who has 'The Chronicles of Ridd***' and 'Laura Croft: Tombraider' as COMPELLING (ROFLMAO) HD titles to watch over and over on their overpriced consoles? Titles that failed to sell even in theaters or on standard DVD?

Whoopee!!!

Whine and jump up and down all you like, the niche that the XBox360 and the PS3 play is a marginal one at best. Who cares..

. And all of the debate over them simply contributes to the noise floor.

posted Apr 12, 2007 - 5:01 AM You really have no points at all.

Is Sony making a profit on the PS3 units? Nope
Sony is not making a profit. Microsoft is not making a profit.

Nintendo is not making a profit. None of them will for a while yet.
Whose units are sitting on the shelves while the Wii is still sold out?

I see all three on shelves. The Wii is out selling the other two but none are sold out.
The old consoles will always generate more profits than the newly launched console.

The new consoles don't provide a return on investment until many units and games are sold.
Since that's not exclusive BD titles what's the point? Heck you even quote titles that are listed in this article about HD-DVD.

Apparently plenty of people care. To be specific the gamers care, some of them care far too much. I still hold out some hope that Sony will win in the console war, but I'm currently more likely to buy a 360 than a PS3 because I want the best gaming experience possible for my buck.

Right now Microsoft has that. I don't count Wii as an option because I demand HD, that's my choice and I'm waiting for prices to come where I want them first.
So even if I have wanted Blu-ray to win, this is still good news for me to see.

In the end I just want more HD bang for my buck. :)

edited Apr 12, 2007 - 2:33 PM Heck you even quote titles that are listed in this article about HD-DVD.
Really?

I did? Duh, you dimwit!
Spoken like a true Sony fanboy.

But he referred to an HD-DVD title! Oh no!
A typical gameboy/fanboy rant as opposed to looking at the issue from a strategic marketing point of view.

Unfortunately, their total percentage of the market is not that impressive. And while you can rave that its all good, the high end platforms are not having the revolutionary impact that some had hoped.
And who cares if a game is HD?

I really don't care if I can see their nose hairs any more than I care if I can see Oprah's! And just like HD television, we are still limited by the program material - now several hundred channels of he same old sh!t.

Whoopee.

posted Apr 13, 2007 - 6:27 AM Really? I did?

How can you degrade one technology based on something both have?
I admit to being very partial to Sony. I also stated I am more likely to NOT buy into Sony with the recent console war as I did in the previous PS2 vs X-box.

I'm going to play with the enemy willingly and happily because...

well their stuff just looks more fun! So I am looking at it from a marketing point of view and taking my time to allow that market to mature before I join it.
total percentage of the market is not that impressive.

The only thing you've said in the last couple posts that I do agree with.
And who cares if a game is HD?
As stated previously, I do.

I'm the one who is going to buy a gaming system for the high def graphics. That's my choice since it is my money.
You need to re-read my post and read your own.

You have points that can be made, but not with the information you used to back them up.

edited Apr 11, 2007 - 9:48 PM What you Sony zealots don't seem to understand is that the home theater and video gaming are two very separate markets. No matter how desperately Sony tries to tie them together, it's not going to happen anytime soon.

The PS3 is a lose-lose for Sony. On one hand, it's a much too expensive gaming device that little Johnny and his 9 to 5 parents simply can't afford. On the other hand, as a cheap next generation multimedia device, it creates huge losses for Sony.

Console manufacturers traditionally take a hit on the hardware, and make their money back + profit on the software. As a console, the PS3 is too expensive and you would have to buy many games (I forget what the attach rate is, but it's the highest in video game history) just for Sony to break even. That's not even mentioning the lack of quality games for the PS3.

Why buy a PS3 when you can buy the Xbox360 + several games (same ones as PS3) for the same price?
If bought as a low-cost Blu-Ray player, you would still have to buy 30+ titles before Sony starts making a profit. Again, there's the lack of quality titles and the fact that DVD is still king.

Let's be realistic, neither HD-DVD nor Blu-Ray are pulling in stellar numbers.
Then there's the very small segment of rich kids and yuppies who buy the PS3 for playing both games and BD titles. That small segment isn't going to save the sinking ship we call Sony.

edited Apr 11, 2007 - 8:11 PM @Keith - You must be talking about Blu-ray players. Buy one today, door stop tomorrow.
By the way, the HD-A20 does do Dolby TrueHD.

This is mandatory in all HD DVD players, unlike Blu-ray.

posted Apr 11, 2007 - 6:13 PM HD-A20 does not have HDMI 1.3,
So how does it output TrueHD audio?

I can't via optical, nor can it via HDMI...

Perhaps it does it by magic??

posted Apr 11, 2007 - 9:49 PM I agree, true HD audio is the least important thing to most people.

99% of all people couldnt tell you the difference between HD audio and a 128kb MP3 file.
Keith, you are one serious moron. I bet you don't own a PS3 or a BD player just like Davey.

Scumbags.

edited Apr 12, 2007 - 6:28 AM It's a sub $400 player, do you really think the people this is targeted at give a rats a** about TrueHD or even know what that is? This is why Sony fails, they have no grip on reality.

If low end players had all the features of their high end models, that would be rather pointless wouldn't it. I'm sure you probably still believe that overpriced POS called a PS3 is a great buy. That is why they are rotting on the store shelves.

Edit: Well from the post above it appears you are wrong about TrueHD anyway. Big surprise.
You are nothing more than a brainwashed Sony sheep bleating about how great they are because apparently it fills some kind of void in your pathetic life.

We understand you like Sony, but nobody here cares. So in other words, stop embarrassing yourself.
That is unless you have any more really funny claims like how Vista died a horrible death.

I must admit I do enjoy those, stupidity is so entertaining sometimes. :D

posted Apr 11, 2007 - 6:53 PM For $100 more, you can get a 20GB PS3 that does HDMI 1.3, TrueHD, and futurproof, Blu-Ray 50GB, game console.

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What fool would spend $400 on a single purpose device that does not do it's single purpose very well (compare the startup times of even the best HD-DVD drive to a PS3, and it will lose by at least a minute).
This is a last ditch attempt by Toshiba to break te market, but it can't afford to subsidise much more (it's already losing over $200 per machine, with no revenue stream to win it back).

edited Apr 11, 2007 - 8:15 PM @ Keith Lard -- The 20GB PS3 has been discontinued Sherlock. The cost of entry into Blu-ray is $599 (plus the cost of the remote, plus the cost of an HDMI cable, plus the cost of movies) unless you want a crap Blu-ray player like the please buy me Samsung BD-P1000. You're looking at spending at least $700 for this.

The cost of entry into HD DVD is $299 for the HD-A2 (which comes with a free HDMI cable if you buy from Value Electronics and 5 free HD DVD movies from Toshiba. Oh yeah, it comes with a REMOTE too).
Looks like Sony was bleeding too much.

They don't lose as much by selling the 60GB PS3.

posted Apr 11, 2007 - 9:00 PM Do you even read the links you post??

? Ok the 2nd one talks about how much better it is than current stand alone Blu-Ray players. No where in there does he say it is better than the Blu-Ray players.

He only talks of HD-DVD a few times and when he does he says there is little if any difference.
Also your first link doesn't even work at all. It just goes to the hometheatermag.

com home page.

edited Apr 11, 2007 - 8:05 PM @Keith -- 'exceeds that of many current standalone Blu-ray and HD DVD players' -- except, for example, the Toshiba HD-XA2 which is currently the BEST high-definition player right now, period. And you can buy it for LESS than even the 60GB PS3!

How you like them apples?
Bottom line, HD DVD has MUCH better players, better price, better value, that has had a finalized spec from the start. Is The Matrix for Blu-ray available yet btw?

:P

posted Apr 12, 2007 - 1:57 PM Are you suggesting the PS3 is quiet? Thats funny..

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O btw go and read the links before you post. It really helps to make you not look like an idiot.

edited Apr 11, 2007 - 7:23 PM no matter how much BS you and Sony spew about them.
Just thought I'd repeat that, either you missed it or your head is too thick to absorb it. Here is Sony's and your problem, consumers see the PS3 as a game console.

I don't care if it can make pancakes and do your taxes, in the end it's still a game console. Not that it matters since it is not selling anyway.
I love how you Sony zealots ignore when someone corrects you by the way, like with the TrueHD and the 20GB PS3s.

Maybe if you don't mention it we'll forget that ever happened right? Like how you said Vista is already dead, lol.

posted Apr 12, 2007 - 10:12 AM You do know that the only kind of posts on betanews are trolling, flaming, paid promoting (ie lard), and insults right?

It's crazy how sensitive people are becoming. You're not on the rutgers female basketball team are you??

Maybe you should try to get the internet censored, god forbid anything out there offends anyone!

posted Apr 12, 2007 - 3:07 AM If you want to play that game.
PS3 1st 4 months sales are higher than the 360.

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See you can twist stats how you want.

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edited Apr 12, 2007 - 2:19 PM Xbox 360 is outselling the PS3 right now.

..So your point?

You are avoiding the subject with your post though which is Vista. Why? Because yet again you are WRONG.

Another thing is you are trying to compare apples to oranges. Show me some links that actually back up the BS you are spouting and I might start taking you seriously.

posted Apr 12, 2007 - 4:39 AM Unfulfilled potential is worthless.

That's just what Sony has on it's hands. A better product but what is better is a lot of hot air and a higher price tag.
Wii out sold the PS3 in that same 4 month period, and beat the first 6 months sales figures of both consoles hands down.

Not because it could play better HD movies because it couldn't play any format and doesn't intend to. Consumers spoke with their wallets and price is king.

edited Apr 12, 2007 - 7:31 AM Wii will be a forgotten about novelty by this time next year.

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Wii = Tickle Me Elmo of the console world..

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edited Apr 11, 2007 - 4:54 PM Sub $500? Try sub $400.

The HD-A20 can already be bought for $399.99 from (awesome store and customer support form what I've read).
HD DVD rocks!

Great picture, great price, great value, and a ton a great upcoming movies! The Matrix Trilogy will be exclusive to HD DVD for most of the year!!

! Oh yeah, and unlike Blu-ray players, HD DVD players will not be defunct once October 31 comes around. HD DVD is the way to go.

posted Apr 11, 2007 - 5:08 PM Oh yeah, and unlike Blu-ray players, HD DVD players will not be defunct once October 31 comes around.
You sir are correct..

HD-DVD players are defunct now...

edited Apr 11, 2007 - 6:15 PM I have, and it's FUD spread by the early HD-DVD adopters..
I presume you skipped over the bit in the article, that mentions only the BD-Java content that won't be playable in 1st gen players.

The main movie will play just fine. In addition many players will get updated software to include this (almost certainly the PS3 will get BD-J, as it's already got the Java logo on the box)

edited Apr 11, 2007 - 6:48 PM You'll be able to view the movie itself, but you won't have Picture-In-Picture, you won't have persistent storage (in either the 256MB or 1GB variety) and there will likely be other cool features that will be inaccessible on future Blu-ray discs with current players. Bottom line, if you want a fully functioning Blu-ray stand alone player next year, don't buy one any time soon.

As for the article being FUD by early HD DVD adopters , that is hilarious. DVDTown writes both HD DVD and Blu-ray reviews, and has nothing to do with HD DVD. The fact is, if they see a product that isn't worth buying, they'll say it.

And in this case, they're saying DO NOT BUY A BLU-RAY PLAYER! :)

posted Apr 11, 2007 - 7:18 PM My god Keither I came here to thank you. I get a good laugh every day out of your post I do.

Seriously I hope you are getting paid to spout all this BS.
What makes you so sure that the PS3 is future proof. Do you have a link?

Do you have anything what so ever to support this? I am dieing to hear it. You probably wont reply as usual though because we all know you can't back up any of the BS you like to spout.

edited Apr 12, 2007 - 12:40 PM And thus it already has the Java Runtime..
the BD-J revision just adds more stuff to the movies.

As long as your player supports BD-J, you can be pretty safe that it will be updated to incorporate the new BD-J features. There are some Blu-Ray players that don't have Java support, these are the units that will be affected.
As long as you have the Java Runtime in your player, whatever spec changes come along will simply require a trivial update to the runtime engine.

With the formwat war raging, all manufacturers will clambering overthemselves not be to highligted by having a Gen1 inconpatible players.
As it happens there are already some discs that need firmware updates to play DB-J content, it's no big deal, there are updates already out there. For example, the BD movie The Descent, it currently plays without issue on the PS3, but most other players need updates to play the BD-J, these updates are freely available.